QCassidy352
Apr 6, 11:58 AM
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So is that also true for the difference between SV and LV? If that is the case, the Core i7-2649M you cite above (2.3 LV chip) should be faster compared to the 2.3 i5 in the low end Pro 13?
Thanks!
It would be about as fast. The IGP is 150MHz slower though so graphics wise it would be slightly slower. chrmjenkins explained some smaller details but in terms of performance, i7-2649M should be similar to i5-2520M.
Sure clock speed isn't everything. But you better go read up some more on Tue Intel HD3000 IGP. You're using facts from the STD voltage SB IGP and applying them to the ULV SB IGP. Go read about the graphics on the Samsung Series 9 laptops. The 13" model uses this very chip cited. It shows greater than a 50% drop in graphics performance from the 320m to ULV IGP used in SB.
This has been the problem all along with everyone. They're attributing facts that are actually fallacies to this Intel IGP.
Remember that those are numbers under Windows. Anand mentioned in his 2011 MBP review that Intel HD 3000 has brilliant drivers in OS X, and in general it beat the 320M in OS X too. In Windows it got badly beaten by 320M. Sure the LV and especially ULV IGP will be slower than 320M, even in OS X but it may not be as bad as 50% drop.
True. But here's the thing. Apple generally updates these about one a year. With such a slow upgrade cycle, you'd like to see significant improvement on each update. To stay the same would be pretty mediocre. To actually move backwards is just sad.
And yes, I realize options are limited here by the spat between intel and nvidea and by the size of the air (not enough room for a big dedicated card). So I don't know what the right answer is. All I know is I won't be tempted by an upgrade to CPU when it comes with a gpu downgrade.
So is that also true for the difference between SV and LV? If that is the case, the Core i7-2649M you cite above (2.3 LV chip) should be faster compared to the 2.3 i5 in the low end Pro 13?
Thanks!
It would be about as fast. The IGP is 150MHz slower though so graphics wise it would be slightly slower. chrmjenkins explained some smaller details but in terms of performance, i7-2649M should be similar to i5-2520M.
Sure clock speed isn't everything. But you better go read up some more on Tue Intel HD3000 IGP. You're using facts from the STD voltage SB IGP and applying them to the ULV SB IGP. Go read about the graphics on the Samsung Series 9 laptops. The 13" model uses this very chip cited. It shows greater than a 50% drop in graphics performance from the 320m to ULV IGP used in SB.
This has been the problem all along with everyone. They're attributing facts that are actually fallacies to this Intel IGP.
Remember that those are numbers under Windows. Anand mentioned in his 2011 MBP review that Intel HD 3000 has brilliant drivers in OS X, and in general it beat the 320M in OS X too. In Windows it got badly beaten by 320M. Sure the LV and especially ULV IGP will be slower than 320M, even in OS X but it may not be as bad as 50% drop.
True. But here's the thing. Apple generally updates these about one a year. With such a slow upgrade cycle, you'd like to see significant improvement on each update. To stay the same would be pretty mediocre. To actually move backwards is just sad.
And yes, I realize options are limited here by the spat between intel and nvidea and by the size of the air (not enough room for a big dedicated card). So I don't know what the right answer is. All I know is I won't be tempted by an upgrade to CPU when it comes with a gpu downgrade.
leekohler
Mar 23, 03:45 PM
What are fivepoint and MattSepeta arguing about? Obama has not lied or invaded a country for no reason. This is a coordinated effort agreed upon with the UN. Huge difference. Just because people are liberal does not make them opposed to all military action.
I supported Bush's invasion of Afghanistan.
I supported Bush's invasion of Afghanistan.
smugDrew
Apr 6, 06:46 PM
People who keep waiting for the next rev will never buy a computer. The "right time to buy" is probably not until the Macbook Air has Skymont in 2015. :p
Pfft. I'm waiting for good reason. I don't want to pay a premium price for a Netbook with a TN panel and no backlit keys running a Core2Duo.
Pfft. I'm waiting for good reason. I don't want to pay a premium price for a Netbook with a TN panel and no backlit keys running a Core2Duo.
yoak
Aug 11, 02:05 PM
I�ll buy one. It�s a while untill I have to upgrade my Ericsson, so maybe around that time.
great to only have to carry one item as opposed to ipod AND phone.
My Ericsson is a walkman phone, and dosen�t work to well with mac. iTuneMyPhone saved the day though, at least with this little script I can transfer songs onto it.
great to only have to carry one item as opposed to ipod AND phone.
My Ericsson is a walkman phone, and dosen�t work to well with mac. iTuneMyPhone saved the day though, at least with this little script I can transfer songs onto it.
greenstork
Jul 31, 12:25 PM
Apple will never ship a desktop machine so close in size to the mini. Impractical and too much market confusion. I'm expecting a ~25% decrease in size of the current G5 tower, making it more mid-tower sized. This would still be an improvement to the current behemoths.
Wow, you're pulling out my deep cuts with your sig. They never did fit a G5 in a notebook, I guess that was my intention with that quote. The G4 was never a great chip. It ran hot and the only way to make it faster was to make it run hotter, Apple needed a new chip and they knew it. Because they couldn't find a producer of efficient PPC chips, they switched to Intel, and I don't think anyone saw that coming.
Sometimes, chip makers move backwards to an architecture that works. Look at Intel's latest chips, they're an evolution of the Pentium M architecture and a departure from what previously was their "best" and fastest, the Pentium 4.
Wow, you're pulling out my deep cuts with your sig. They never did fit a G5 in a notebook, I guess that was my intention with that quote. The G4 was never a great chip. It ran hot and the only way to make it faster was to make it run hotter, Apple needed a new chip and they knew it. Because they couldn't find a producer of efficient PPC chips, they switched to Intel, and I don't think anyone saw that coming.
Sometimes, chip makers move backwards to an architecture that works. Look at Intel's latest chips, they're an evolution of the Pentium M architecture and a departure from what previously was their "best" and fastest, the Pentium 4.
squeeks
Apr 28, 03:58 PM
Did you ask to see W's birth certificate, or any other president's birth certificate? Why not?
Because there was never a question of wither or not any of those men were born in the US, with Obama the past was always a bit hazy as to if he was actually born in Hawaii or thats just what his parents told him. Obviously he doesn�t remember BEING BORN in hawaii..his parents could have just told him that.
But now we have proof and its all over with there�s no need to be calling names about it.
Because there was never a question of wither or not any of those men were born in the US, with Obama the past was always a bit hazy as to if he was actually born in Hawaii or thats just what his parents told him. Obviously he doesn�t remember BEING BORN in hawaii..his parents could have just told him that.
But now we have proof and its all over with there�s no need to be calling names about it.
Nuck81
Dec 23, 07:39 PM
well im a little stuck. my zonda r isnt fast enough for a lot of the top races, and the newly appointed online dealership has nice cars, but it doesnt rotate between them. so im really waiting for a nice car to come up in the used garage. either that or ill have to save up like 4M for a dealership car
Zonda R is one of the better cars in the game. It will win any race you enter with it if you are able to drive. Add some downforce and lower the throttle sensitivity and it's a little easier to handle.
Zonda R is one of the better cars in the game. It will win any race you enter with it if you are able to drive. Add some downforce and lower the throttle sensitivity and it's a little easier to handle.
daneoni
Aug 27, 07:34 PM
Now. But how much have iMac prices changed since release? I don't think they have. They released the iMac and MBP lines around the same time Yonah was intro'ed, and the iMacs did not see any speed bumps or price changes that I know of. Therefore they should be able to implement similar pricing with Conroe @ 2.4GHz, just with a profit margin closer to the iMac release amounts.
Of course they could always go for the 2.13GHz version, which is less expensive, and still plenty faster than the existing 1.83 :)
20" iMac prices have reduced....at least in the UK
Of course they could always go for the 2.13GHz version, which is less expensive, and still plenty faster than the existing 1.83 :)
20" iMac prices have reduced....at least in the UK
Peace
Aug 7, 04:12 PM
I thought an interesting part was more UB apps next week..
Office?
CS2 ?
Office?
CS2 ?
j_maddison
Aug 26, 06:58 PM
It's not really that.
It's just that the joke is soooo done. Played out.
It's time to turn the page.
I never found it funnny in the first place. But then again I never found it funny a few years back when everyone was going around going WAAAZZZ UPPP! :eek: Cause it was on the budweiser advert :)
It's just that the joke is soooo done. Played out.
It's time to turn the page.
I never found it funnny in the first place. But then again I never found it funny a few years back when everyone was going around going WAAAZZZ UPPP! :eek: Cause it was on the budweiser advert :)
generik
Sep 19, 12:24 AM
This update better be bitchin!
I think when the update reveals itself to be.... just a mere processor swop the moans to the high heavens would be deafening!
Any likelihood that we will see a new case design at MWSF perchance? :rolleyes:
I think when the update reveals itself to be.... just a mere processor swop the moans to the high heavens would be deafening!
Any likelihood that we will see a new case design at MWSF perchance? :rolleyes:
LagunaSol
Apr 27, 08:24 AM
Its not about being a criminal or paranoid. This data is for the sole purpose of marketers to sell us crap.
Well, I'm tired of seeing ads everywhere I turn. You can't go to the bathroom now without seeing a ad shoved in your face and its becoming tiresome.
Perhaps we can interest you in a *free mobile OS? Android. By Google.
*funded by advertising
Well, I'm tired of seeing ads everywhere I turn. You can't go to the bathroom now without seeing a ad shoved in your face and its becoming tiresome.
Perhaps we can interest you in a *free mobile OS? Android. By Google.
*funded by advertising
epitaphic
Sep 13, 02:00 PM
I think you've misunderstood. Merom/Conroe/Woodcrest are one microarch now. That's Intel's point -- the core is essentially the same.
Conroe and its derivatives are a step away from Intel's former flagship NetBurst, but even these processors are a bit of a dying breed: during Intel's shift to 45nm, the company will no longer focus on derived microprocessor cores in favor of refined unified core architectures.
So what do you think they meant with M/C/W being a derived arch and Penryn,etc being unified archs?
From what I understood, they'll stop having different characteristics (FSB,RAM,Cache) and instead just differentiate them with MHz and core count. Hence all the stories that future Intel chips (starting with Penryn I presume) won't use FSB.
Conroe and its derivatives are a step away from Intel's former flagship NetBurst, but even these processors are a bit of a dying breed: during Intel's shift to 45nm, the company will no longer focus on derived microprocessor cores in favor of refined unified core architectures.
So what do you think they meant with M/C/W being a derived arch and Penryn,etc being unified archs?
From what I understood, they'll stop having different characteristics (FSB,RAM,Cache) and instead just differentiate them with MHz and core count. Hence all the stories that future Intel chips (starting with Penryn I presume) won't use FSB.
kdarling
Apr 27, 09:52 AM
Incorrect - it's not tracking your direct location as you assert.
For instance, when you're visiting "Harry's Sex Shop and under the counter Heroin sales" it doesn't track that you're actually at that business.
Depends.
Someone could infer that info, if the cell cache says that around 2am you visited the town Harry's is in, and it's the only store open at that time.
:)
For instance, when you're visiting "Harry's Sex Shop and under the counter Heroin sales" it doesn't track that you're actually at that business.
Depends.
Someone could infer that info, if the cell cache says that around 2am you visited the town Harry's is in, and it's the only store open at that time.
:)
shawnce
Jul 27, 04:29 PM
What would you suggest as an alternative to "successor" to describe these future chips?
The normally accepted definition of successor is one who replaces the one that came before it (as in succession).
The normally accepted definition of "next generation" in this field implies a new architecture (aka Core 2 to Core 3, or G4 to G5).
Kentfield and Clovertown are simply a different packaging of the Conroe and Woodcrest... putting multiple Conroe or Woodcrest chips into a multiple-chip module (MCM).
Not trying to quibble just make sure folks don't read things incorrectly.
The normally accepted definition of successor is one who replaces the one that came before it (as in succession).
The normally accepted definition of "next generation" in this field implies a new architecture (aka Core 2 to Core 3, or G4 to G5).
Kentfield and Clovertown are simply a different packaging of the Conroe and Woodcrest... putting multiple Conroe or Woodcrest chips into a multiple-chip module (MCM).
Not trying to quibble just make sure folks don't read things incorrectly.
SC68Cal
Sep 19, 12:49 AM
im glad i bought just the other day, itll be within the 14 day return period. i know some people have said they are able to get the restocking fee waived. any tips on this?
I'm almost tempted if they come out with a Merom update. I purchased mine yesterday so I might be in the 14 day period. But, do I really feel like setting up all my stuff all over again? for a 10% increase in speed?
I'm almost tempted if they come out with a Merom update. I purchased mine yesterday so I might be in the 14 day period. But, do I really feel like setting up all my stuff all over again? for a 10% increase in speed?
NoNameBrand
Jul 15, 08:49 AM
There are advantages to having it on top too.
1) Hot air from components in the case rises to the top of the case..
2) Fan in PSU vents it out of system
Hot air in my G5, at least, is vented out the back. There's not a lot of air flow between the thermal zones on the G5.
1) Hot air from components in the case rises to the top of the case..
2) Fan in PSU vents it out of system
Hot air in my G5, at least, is vented out the back. There's not a lot of air flow between the thermal zones on the G5.
dethmaShine
Mar 26, 09:12 AM
I use my computer as a "real computer" and I like virtually every change I've seen. I wish people wouldn't generalize so broadly and presume that because certain additions aren't something that they use that it has nothing to do with "real work."
justin bieber and selena gomez kissing pics. justin bieber and selena gomez; justin bieber and selena gomez. MattyMac. Aug 6, 09:14 PM
shawnce
Jul 27, 04:29 PM
What would you suggest as an alternative to "successor" to describe these future chips?
The normally accepted definition of successor is one who replaces the one that came before it (as in succession).
The normally accepted definition of "next generation" in this field implies a new architecture (aka Core 2 to Core 3, or G4 to G5).
Kentfield and Clovertown are simply a different packaging of the Conroe and Woodcrest... putting multiple Conroe or Woodcrest chips into a multiple-chip module (MCM).
Not trying to quibble just make sure folks don't read things incorrectly.
The normally accepted definition of successor is one who replaces the one that came before it (as in succession).
The normally accepted definition of "next generation" in this field implies a new architecture (aka Core 2 to Core 3, or G4 to G5).
Kentfield and Clovertown are simply a different packaging of the Conroe and Woodcrest... putting multiple Conroe or Woodcrest chips into a multiple-chip module (MCM).
Not trying to quibble just make sure folks don't read things incorrectly.
Dooger
Apr 8, 02:09 AM
Anyway, the iPad 2s aren't marked up, thus they make zero.
Best Buy makes zero notional margin on iPad sales, so they're not withholding stock to meet daily budgets.
Did it ever occur to you that perhaps BB take a cut of Apple's share of the profit when they sell an iPad?
Best Buy makes zero notional margin on iPad sales, so they're not withholding stock to meet daily budgets.
Did it ever occur to you that perhaps BB take a cut of Apple's share of the profit when they sell an iPad?
dethmaShine
Apr 19, 02:27 PM
I said that in another thread and was laughed at.
Its the same idea though. Its a grid layout with icons that are shortcuts to Applications. Same idea.
Are you talking about the Newton?
http://www.thocp.net/hardware/pictures/pda/apple_newton_sml.jpg
Its the same idea though. Its a grid layout with icons that are shortcuts to Applications. Same idea.
Are you talking about the Newton?
http://www.thocp.net/hardware/pictures/pda/apple_newton_sml.jpg
generik
Sep 19, 02:57 AM
1. It's Merom. Not Memrom, Menron, Memron or even L. Ron.
2. It won't be any cooler and it won't have greater battery life, period. Unless Apple has an amazing new design in store.
3. If you really, really, need a Merom, you should wait until the Santa Rosa platform so you don't complain that you got the inferior Merom. :rolleyes:
That is all.
These kinds of arguments are always lame.
1. People have lifes, not everyone is as much as a geek as you to know exactly how many transistors are in the next Intel processor. That is a code name by the way, Steve is not going to step up and go "Merom Macbook Pros!" on stage. He will look like a Moron.
2. So? Who is Apple to tell me how much of an improvement I should expect from something? When's the last time you seen Ford advertise "05 Ford Falcon! Fuel efficiency lags behind competing models by under 10%, same old reliable Ford Falcon with 2 year old design, still at same old price of $19,999"
If there is even so much as 0.001% of improvement you are gonna see Steve step up onto the keynote like a lappy dog and brag it to sound like it is greater than the 2nd coming of Jesus. That's sales 101 for you.
3. Meroms support 64 bit code. 64 bit code like Leopard (although we don't know for sure), or code like Vista x64 (that is 100% for sure). Sure, you might not mind running things in half arsed modes like some Frankinstein hybrid 32/64 bit system like Tiger is, but some people might actually *gasp* appreciate the ability to judge 64 bit code. Get off your high horse already, if you disagree just keep it to yourself. Not like your arrogant rants contributed anything either.
2. It won't be any cooler and it won't have greater battery life, period. Unless Apple has an amazing new design in store.
3. If you really, really, need a Merom, you should wait until the Santa Rosa platform so you don't complain that you got the inferior Merom. :rolleyes:
That is all.
These kinds of arguments are always lame.
1. People have lifes, not everyone is as much as a geek as you to know exactly how many transistors are in the next Intel processor. That is a code name by the way, Steve is not going to step up and go "Merom Macbook Pros!" on stage. He will look like a Moron.
2. So? Who is Apple to tell me how much of an improvement I should expect from something? When's the last time you seen Ford advertise "05 Ford Falcon! Fuel efficiency lags behind competing models by under 10%, same old reliable Ford Falcon with 2 year old design, still at same old price of $19,999"
If there is even so much as 0.001% of improvement you are gonna see Steve step up onto the keynote like a lappy dog and brag it to sound like it is greater than the 2nd coming of Jesus. That's sales 101 for you.
3. Meroms support 64 bit code. 64 bit code like Leopard (although we don't know for sure), or code like Vista x64 (that is 100% for sure). Sure, you might not mind running things in half arsed modes like some Frankinstein hybrid 32/64 bit system like Tiger is, but some people might actually *gasp* appreciate the ability to judge 64 bit code. Get off your high horse already, if you disagree just keep it to yourself. Not like your arrogant rants contributed anything either.
Cowinacape
Jul 14, 04:51 PM
....while I am at it, hopefully there will me room for more than just 2 hard drives inside the case........
HecubusPro
Sep 19, 09:21 AM
That whole comment had the tone of a spoilt 13 year old...
You have no idea why some ppl are waiting for the next revision or upgrade - don't benchmark your rationale with others in way that dismisses other ppl who have equally legitimate reasons and opinions...
Some ppl (who don't have allot of money to drop every year for the next best thing) have to spend wisely - and perhaps just want a revB machine that is more stable and refined. I for one keep my macs until they die...so I will be waiting for revB to maximise my chances of a solid bug-free machine.
If that makes me spoilt - b/c I don't want to purchase new products year after year - then there is nothing I can do about your perceptions...
AMEN!!!! :D
You have no idea why some ppl are waiting for the next revision or upgrade - don't benchmark your rationale with others in way that dismisses other ppl who have equally legitimate reasons and opinions...
Some ppl (who don't have allot of money to drop every year for the next best thing) have to spend wisely - and perhaps just want a revB machine that is more stable and refined. I for one keep my macs until they die...so I will be waiting for revB to maximise my chances of a solid bug-free machine.
If that makes me spoilt - b/c I don't want to purchase new products year after year - then there is nothing I can do about your perceptions...
AMEN!!!! :D
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