PhantomPumpkin
Apr 25, 04:39 PM
You are skating around the issue of user permission. If you use this app to track your location - its YOUR CHOICE. However, the issue here is that Apple is collecting the data without the option of user choice. Even turning off location services does not stop the collection and submittal to Apple of this information.
That is what is the hearty of the matter - do we, as users, have the right to opt to to the collection and submittal of location data to Apple ? With your example, you do, as you can turn off the app at will.
Please, link me any evidence this is submitted to Apple.
That is what is the hearty of the matter - do we, as users, have the right to opt to to the collection and submittal of location data to Apple ? With your example, you do, as you can turn off the app at will.
Please, link me any evidence this is submitted to Apple.
dornoforpyros
Jul 14, 02:57 PM
eh I'm willing to bet they stick with the g5 type case, I mean the macbook is the only "new" case we've seen with the intel transition.
JS77
Apr 10, 03:28 AM
wow. You'd think a fcp users group would be able to track down a halfway decent graphic artist to make their banner graphic...
+1,000,000
+1,000,000
Blue Velvet
Apr 27, 02:22 PM
1. You opened it in Illustrator, not InDesign.
2. After I opened it in Illustrator like you did it did reveal some interesting things. It seems that fields #20 and #22 are on individual layers.
They're not. The proper file is flat. I downloaded and opened the PDF from the White House. Flat in both Illustrator and Photoshop, just one group on one layer... and no security on the PDF. No embedded fonts.
This is a fraud.
2. After I opened it in Illustrator like you did it did reveal some interesting things. It seems that fields #20 and #22 are on individual layers.
They're not. The proper file is flat. I downloaded and opened the PDF from the White House. Flat in both Illustrator and Photoshop, just one group on one layer... and no security on the PDF. No embedded fonts.
This is a fraud.
justaregularjoe
Feb 28, 03:17 PM
Wow. I have never, ever in my life been so tempted to troll a MacRumors thread, nor have I ever been so infuriated by the use of a set of double quotation marks.
Gay marriage is not "marriage." Gay marriage is marriage.
Gay people are not "gay." They are gay.
So a few things:
1) Deal with it.
2) Gays are going to keep on getting married. Whether that means that they have to leave your ass-backwards country to come to a real civilization to do so, or write their own damn marriage contract and hire a rational person to perform the ceremony, they will.
3) As Lee said, what two consenting adults do in the privacy of their own homes (hell, anywhere, in fact) is their own damn business.
4) The claim by Bill McEnaney that gay people living together "should have purely platonic, nonsexual relationships with one another" is outrageous. (NB that this person had just said they must live "as siblings" which is weird, given that platonic love is only reservation from physical romance, not emotional romance...)
5) If you are going to pull the "protect the sanctity of marriage" card on me, think very hard about the institutions of divorce and annulment.
6) Many people (and many of the small number who claim to anyway) do not share your beliefs. Catholics have sex. In and out of marriage. *See Point One.*
7) Please try to be just a smidgen more cultured in your attitudes, and a little less abrasive in sharing them. Though I try to reserve judgment, I am currently not alone in thinking that you are completely insane just by your posts in this thread.
I feel better now. :)
Gay marriage is not "marriage." Gay marriage is marriage.
Gay people are not "gay." They are gay.
So a few things:
1) Deal with it.
2) Gays are going to keep on getting married. Whether that means that they have to leave your ass-backwards country to come to a real civilization to do so, or write their own damn marriage contract and hire a rational person to perform the ceremony, they will.
3) As Lee said, what two consenting adults do in the privacy of their own homes (hell, anywhere, in fact) is their own damn business.
4) The claim by Bill McEnaney that gay people living together "should have purely platonic, nonsexual relationships with one another" is outrageous. (NB that this person had just said they must live "as siblings" which is weird, given that platonic love is only reservation from physical romance, not emotional romance...)
5) If you are going to pull the "protect the sanctity of marriage" card on me, think very hard about the institutions of divorce and annulment.
6) Many people (and many of the small number who claim to anyway) do not share your beliefs. Catholics have sex. In and out of marriage. *See Point One.*
7) Please try to be just a smidgen more cultured in your attitudes, and a little less abrasive in sharing them. Though I try to reserve judgment, I am currently not alone in thinking that you are completely insane just by your posts in this thread.
I feel better now. :)
cgmpowers
Aug 7, 04:23 PM
Microsoft officially CANNED Virtual PC... Apple's been giving accolades to Boot Camp and Paralles.. The 'ribbing of so-called "Vista 2.0" on the banner'..
It's obviously not such a secret after all that MS apps will eventually be allowed to run ontop of OS X withouth ever installing a Windows operating system..
My bets are on some kind of Boot Camp-ish feature that will allow for native installation of Windows applications -- without Windows -- right into OS X. It would obliterate the need for applications to be written for both Windows and Mac.
<ducks and waits for flamers to whine about how impossible this is>
It's obviously not such a secret after all that MS apps will eventually be allowed to run ontop of OS X withouth ever installing a Windows operating system..
My bets are on some kind of Boot Camp-ish feature that will allow for native installation of Windows applications -- without Windows -- right into OS X. It would obliterate the need for applications to be written for both Windows and Mac.
<ducks and waits for flamers to whine about how impossible this is>
illegalprelude
Aug 25, 04:06 PM
So far, i havent been the happiest camper with Apple's support. Having Apple Care on my PowerMac G5, I can tell you I got more of a run-around then any other time ive needed service on a unit. It started with Apple sending me to an Authorised Repair center to replace my Ethernet Card (so the entire logic board had to go, this story btw dates back to xmas) and from there on, my unit with Kurnil Panic all the time, i mean 7 times a day. 2 or 3 random programs opening and back, complete lock up with a full shut down needed.
I had to of course drag my PowerMac 30 miles everytime, drag it to a store (6 times over all before they took care of the problem and dragging a PM through the mall, it gets heavy real fast) and they then blamed it on everytime from "heat" to my "battery backup" to "envirmental issues" to "external HDD". Just every single BS they could think of because all these devices for 2 years prior worked just fine but now they suddenly wanna glitch up? come on now. Finally, finally, 6 visits, 2 calls to AppleCare and a month and a half later did they replace my LogicBoard and processor and find one or both of those to be the problem. Sorry but this is what I get for buying a Pro consumer computer, .Mac service and AppleCare :mad:
Im not saying other units dont have problems. Everything does but it sure as hell seems like from the 1st time the MacBooks hit out, we have seen an uprise in problems from heat, to freezing, to failed drives etc.
Im sure ill get alot of "pro apple kool-aid drinker" attacks from this but this dosent make me any less of an Apple enthusiest or whatever but I work hard for my money and I demand the same quality and service from Apple as I do from any other company. Clear Example iMikeT
I had to of course drag my PowerMac 30 miles everytime, drag it to a store (6 times over all before they took care of the problem and dragging a PM through the mall, it gets heavy real fast) and they then blamed it on everytime from "heat" to my "battery backup" to "envirmental issues" to "external HDD". Just every single BS they could think of because all these devices for 2 years prior worked just fine but now they suddenly wanna glitch up? come on now. Finally, finally, 6 visits, 2 calls to AppleCare and a month and a half later did they replace my LogicBoard and processor and find one or both of those to be the problem. Sorry but this is what I get for buying a Pro consumer computer, .Mac service and AppleCare :mad:
Im not saying other units dont have problems. Everything does but it sure as hell seems like from the 1st time the MacBooks hit out, we have seen an uprise in problems from heat, to freezing, to failed drives etc.
Im sure ill get alot of "pro apple kool-aid drinker" attacks from this but this dosent make me any less of an Apple enthusiest or whatever but I work hard for my money and I demand the same quality and service from Apple as I do from any other company. Clear Example iMikeT
RMDI
Apr 27, 09:22 AM
Does Apple really think this double talk, where they say they keep a database of location but don't log the location is going to fly?
But it is true! They didn't log that I was at this date and hour in this restaurant and next hour I was at position xyz, but it was a cache of something related but also different. For example for every celltower-data there is only one timestamp. So you can't even determinate when a place was first (or even last) visited. For real location tracking this data is really inaccurate and useless. Location tracking was not the purpose of this cache and not the intention of Apple. I think it is legitim and important when they emphasize that in their Q&A.
What this data is useable for is drawing nice circles on a google map and visualizing a path of traveling between cities if you have physical access to your personal computer. And all this points are adressed in a software update.
But it is true! They didn't log that I was at this date and hour in this restaurant and next hour I was at position xyz, but it was a cache of something related but also different. For example for every celltower-data there is only one timestamp. So you can't even determinate when a place was first (or even last) visited. For real location tracking this data is really inaccurate and useless. Location tracking was not the purpose of this cache and not the intention of Apple. I think it is legitim and important when they emphasize that in their Q&A.
What this data is useable for is drawing nice circles on a google map and visualizing a path of traveling between cities if you have physical access to your personal computer. And all this points are adressed in a software update.
KnightWRX
Apr 20, 10:50 AM
I think Apple might have much better luck showing that the Galaxy phone shape greatly resembles the 3GS.
Depends on which model. The AT&T/Rogers Galaxy S Captivate hardly ressembles the iPhone :
http://www.droiddog.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/att-samsung-captivate-photo-1.jpg
I'm also hard-pressed to see how the Nexus S comes even close :
http://blog.eches.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/samsung-nexus-s.jpg
Let's not even go there with the Epic 4G :
http://handies.phandroid.com/media/samsung-epic-4g-1288875927-196.jpg
Yet they are all included in the complaint...
Depends on which model. The AT&T/Rogers Galaxy S Captivate hardly ressembles the iPhone :
http://www.droiddog.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/att-samsung-captivate-photo-1.jpg
I'm also hard-pressed to see how the Nexus S comes even close :
http://blog.eches.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/samsung-nexus-s.jpg
Let's not even go there with the Epic 4G :
http://handies.phandroid.com/media/samsung-epic-4g-1288875927-196.jpg
Yet they are all included in the complaint...
leekohler
Apr 28, 04:00 PM
Because there was never a question of wither or not any of those men were born in the US, with Obama the past was always a bit hazy as to if he was actually born in Hawaii or thats just what his parents told him. Obviously he doesn’t remember BEING BORN in hawaii..his parents could have just told him that.
But now we have proof and its all over with there’s no need to be calling names about it.
I'm sorry, but why was there a question about whether Obama was born in the US? Why even ask such a question? Why you think people wondered? And John McCain certainly was not born in the US, but birthers never concerned themselves with that little tidbit, did they? Did they ask McCain for his birth certificate? Why was there never a question of other presidents being born in the US? How was it so "obvious"?
But now we have proof and its all over with there’s no need to be calling names about it.
I'm sorry, but why was there a question about whether Obama was born in the US? Why even ask such a question? Why you think people wondered? And John McCain certainly was not born in the US, but birthers never concerned themselves with that little tidbit, did they? Did they ask McCain for his birth certificate? Why was there never a question of other presidents being born in the US? How was it so "obvious"?
newtonrj
Mar 31, 03:55 PM
It has been said here before but is worth repeating - How does Moto, HTC and all the others differentiate? Obviously, they can't or if they can, it will cost them and the change will be slight.
If you are a carrier, what do you think of your portfolio now? Why so many Androids - Aren't they all the same now?
Who wins - Android wins because of uniformed updates and backward compatibility with screens, memory and installs of apps.
Who loses - Any of say 2 massive cell-phone countries that have +1B potential handset users. Andy Rubin knows this and is putting the brakes on in order to control the OS.
If you are a carrier, what do you think of your portfolio now? Why so many Androids - Aren't they all the same now?
Who wins - Android wins because of uniformed updates and backward compatibility with screens, memory and installs of apps.
Who loses - Any of say 2 massive cell-phone countries that have +1B potential handset users. Andy Rubin knows this and is putting the brakes on in order to control the OS.
Dr.Gargoyle
Aug 11, 03:22 PM
Who wants to go through the trouble of doing a software change to unlock their phone.
It is a code you are given to unlock the cell. NOT a software change, unless the carrier changes the entire phone software.
It is a code you are given to unlock the cell. NOT a software change, unless the carrier changes the entire phone software.
wpotere
Apr 27, 10:17 AM
Trump is a hero. :rolleyes:
http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/04/27/trump-takes-credit-for-release-of-obamas-long-form-birth-certificate/
I listened to the report and I can't understand a word he is saying. He babbles about nothing.
http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/04/27/trump-takes-credit-for-release-of-obamas-long-form-birth-certificate/
I listened to the report and I can't understand a word he is saying. He babbles about nothing.
Huntn
Apr 28, 09:58 AM
Imagine that, three responses which utterly fail to refute let alone dispute my clear and truthful argument. Instead, they leave snide remarks. No substance WHATSOEVER. :)
You accuse every 'liberal' in this forum of being blinded by their bias. I suppose all of the 'conservatives' see clearly and are willing to consider all reasonable alternatives. Lol. And then the debate becomes what is reasonable? :p
If you are unwilling to admit there is a racial aspect to some of the attacks on Obama who is being blind? There is no other President in the history of the U.S. who has been asked for so much proof of citizenship.
You accuse every 'liberal' in this forum of being blinded by their bias. I suppose all of the 'conservatives' see clearly and are willing to consider all reasonable alternatives. Lol. And then the debate becomes what is reasonable? :p
If you are unwilling to admit there is a racial aspect to some of the attacks on Obama who is being blind? There is no other President in the history of the U.S. who has been asked for so much proof of citizenship.
ksz
Sep 20, 03:29 AM
What did you expect? Didn't you look at his avatar? Cool, Homer is a member of Macrumors. :D
...except that he's a she...a demi-goddess. Frequent updates are a good thing. I would not want to stop the march of progress just so I could personally feel better about a little money I spent.
...except that he's a she...a demi-goddess. Frequent updates are a good thing. I would not want to stop the march of progress just so I could personally feel better about a little money I spent.
xxBURT0Nxx
Apr 7, 09:54 AM
It's not false per say, at least not 100%. Of course, graphics in such systems are usually IGPs, but before the Core iX line of processors, anyone could license and build chipsets for these processors and include a different IGP than Intel did. Intel however refused to license this for the new processors, including the SB line and thus nVidia who was making chipsets could not produce an IGP for the new platform.
So yes, essentially Intel told Apple they had to use the 3000 HD as an IGP, where before, Apple was using nVidia's tech. There was even a massive lawsuit about all of this, between Intel and nVidia which ended with nVidia stepping out of the chipset business alltogether.
So the poster you were replying to wasn't 100% wrong at all. It is in fact a testament to Intel's incompetence how all of this was handled, since an old MBA with a 320m outpaces new SB machines that have a much more powerful CPU in graphics performance.
I know about the whole nvidia/intel lawsuit, but to say that intel forced apple to use the IGP is not correct imo. Yes they may have said if you want to use integrated graphics, they must be our integrated graphics on sandy bridge, but obviously apple could still have chosen to use discrete graphics as they did in some of the macbook pros, however seeing them absent on the airs and the 13" mbp shows that apple didn't have enough space to include discrete on top of the new processors. I see what you are saying, but the op said intel made apple use their graphics in a machine that costs this much!?!? not true apple could have easily added amd graphics if they wanted to, however due to cost/design/whatever they use integrated graphics in their smaller laptops!
So yes, essentially Intel told Apple they had to use the 3000 HD as an IGP, where before, Apple was using nVidia's tech. There was even a massive lawsuit about all of this, between Intel and nVidia which ended with nVidia stepping out of the chipset business alltogether.
So the poster you were replying to wasn't 100% wrong at all. It is in fact a testament to Intel's incompetence how all of this was handled, since an old MBA with a 320m outpaces new SB machines that have a much more powerful CPU in graphics performance.
I know about the whole nvidia/intel lawsuit, but to say that intel forced apple to use the IGP is not correct imo. Yes they may have said if you want to use integrated graphics, they must be our integrated graphics on sandy bridge, but obviously apple could still have chosen to use discrete graphics as they did in some of the macbook pros, however seeing them absent on the airs and the 13" mbp shows that apple didn't have enough space to include discrete on top of the new processors. I see what you are saying, but the op said intel made apple use their graphics in a machine that costs this much!?!? not true apple could have easily added amd graphics if they wanted to, however due to cost/design/whatever they use integrated graphics in their smaller laptops!
onigami
Apr 10, 08:51 PM
They did it in 2007... I was there.
Back when Myspace was cool. (http://www.myspace.com/studiomusic1/blog/253736149)
Myspace was never cool.
Okay, okay, so they have done NAB (they've never done AES, though, that I'm certain). But still: They pulled out of everything in the last couple years. Why come back to NAB? Why not just do a small-scale announcement outside of NAB's timeframe so as to maximize press?
Also, nobody answered my initial question. Why the idle timer? There's no point!
Back when Myspace was cool. (http://www.myspace.com/studiomusic1/blog/253736149)
Myspace was never cool.
Okay, okay, so they have done NAB (they've never done AES, though, that I'm certain). But still: They pulled out of everything in the last couple years. Why come back to NAB? Why not just do a small-scale announcement outside of NAB's timeframe so as to maximize press?
Also, nobody answered my initial question. Why the idle timer? There's no point!
Pro31
Mar 31, 05:37 PM
The problem that has always existed, not just with Android, is that the carriers customize the OS, release it with a phone, and you can forget about getting any updates for it. Maybe one update for the lifetime of the device, if you are lucky. My HTC TouchPro 2 has only seen in almost 2 years just one update to WM 6.5, and it was not even close to the most current revision at that time.
This just shows that carriers and manufacturers don't want to keep maintaining their phones. They want to sell and forget, and push a new model out the door.
Sad, but true... :(
Yup. It is ridiculous how fast they just want to push out new devices instead of focusing on more important things.
This just shows that carriers and manufacturers don't want to keep maintaining their phones. They want to sell and forget, and push a new model out the door.
Sad, but true... :(
Yup. It is ridiculous how fast they just want to push out new devices instead of focusing on more important things.
28monkeys
Apr 7, 10:28 PM
Best Buy just plain sux here in China, glad they pulled out. Now Media Mart will rule!
macgeek2005
Aug 19, 06:08 PM
I'm sure you know this. But just a reminder that you would be dealing with an extremely fragile and tricky upgrade process that could destroy your motherboard or fry the processor without the latest cooling system from Apple. Just my own caution against attempting this. Not worth the risk I think. There will be a better video card with the Dual Clovertown Mac Pro as well as other changes to the system fixing bugs discovered between now and then. Too many changes in the works for me to want to fool with such a complex system.
You make me mad you know that? All over the boards I see your posts with your weird avatar and your extremely critical opinions on everything. Why don't you wait until 2010 and get a 32 core system from intel. Why don't you wait until nobody uses computers anymore. This is just a phase in the history of the world. There will be something beyond computers in another few hundred years. Why buy a computer if it'll be obsolete at some point?
Professional users are out there using G5 towers and even G4's. They're using MacBook Pro's, which are much less powerfull than the Quad Mac Pro right now. I mean, what's your problem? Will there ever be a computer good enough for you?
There are people like you out there, but i've never met a case as extreme as you. I mean, you even went as far as to say that theres very little you can do with 4 cores. Where the **** did you pull that from? Actually, don't answer that question.
I think that you're secretly some evil worker from microsoft trying to stall people from buying Mac Pro's!
If everyone could all of a sudden comprehend exactly how powerful the current machines are, anyone who was thinking of buying one, would buy one.
But you're out here with your "Clovertown is better" and your "Bugs must be worked out" and your this and your that.
You know what? I have three Rev. A iMac Core Duo's in my house, and not a single one of them has had a bug, a crash, a freeze, or a problem of any sort. Rev. A.
HMMM. Maybe Apple does know how to do Rev. A. Just sometimes? Maybe? Perhaps?
Especially with their Quad Xeon 64 Bit Workstation which they've been working on for over a year?
Do you realise that in the procces of making these computers they work out the bugs themselves? They use the computers, and find all the bugs possible, and work them out?
What do you think all those apple workers have been doing for the last year and a half, if not working out bugs on their machines?
For anyone out there who has been needlessly influenced by this guy to wait for a system that will only be outdated by the one that will come after it, please uninfluence yourself, and buy the stupid computer that you want, when you want it.
Jeeshh!!
You make me mad you know that? All over the boards I see your posts with your weird avatar and your extremely critical opinions on everything. Why don't you wait until 2010 and get a 32 core system from intel. Why don't you wait until nobody uses computers anymore. This is just a phase in the history of the world. There will be something beyond computers in another few hundred years. Why buy a computer if it'll be obsolete at some point?
Professional users are out there using G5 towers and even G4's. They're using MacBook Pro's, which are much less powerfull than the Quad Mac Pro right now. I mean, what's your problem? Will there ever be a computer good enough for you?
There are people like you out there, but i've never met a case as extreme as you. I mean, you even went as far as to say that theres very little you can do with 4 cores. Where the **** did you pull that from? Actually, don't answer that question.
I think that you're secretly some evil worker from microsoft trying to stall people from buying Mac Pro's!
If everyone could all of a sudden comprehend exactly how powerful the current machines are, anyone who was thinking of buying one, would buy one.
But you're out here with your "Clovertown is better" and your "Bugs must be worked out" and your this and your that.
You know what? I have three Rev. A iMac Core Duo's in my house, and not a single one of them has had a bug, a crash, a freeze, or a problem of any sort. Rev. A.
HMMM. Maybe Apple does know how to do Rev. A. Just sometimes? Maybe? Perhaps?
Especially with their Quad Xeon 64 Bit Workstation which they've been working on for over a year?
Do you realise that in the procces of making these computers they work out the bugs themselves? They use the computers, and find all the bugs possible, and work them out?
What do you think all those apple workers have been doing for the last year and a half, if not working out bugs on their machines?
For anyone out there who has been needlessly influenced by this guy to wait for a system that will only be outdated by the one that will come after it, please uninfluence yourself, and buy the stupid computer that you want, when you want it.
Jeeshh!!
iJohnHenry
Mar 19, 05:52 PM
It's a known fact the Obama Administration monitors MacRumors forums for a populist read on issues... ;)
OMG. I guess I should not have deleted those White House E-mails as spam. :eek:
OMG. I guess I should not have deleted those White House E-mails as spam. :eek:
kny3twalker
Apr 6, 10:36 AM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_2_6 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8E200 Safari/6533.18.5)
ULV CPUs (17W) will go to 11.6". The TDP of 320M is not known but 9400M has TDP of 12W so it is quite safe to assume that the TDP is similar to that. That means current 11.6" MBA has TDP of 22W (includes CPU, GPU, chipset) while SB 11.6" MBA would have a TDP of 21W (17W for the CPU and ~4W for the PCH).
13" will go with LV CPUs (25W). Again, currently it has 17W for the CPU and 12W for 320M. That's 29W. 25W CPU and ~4W for PCH gives you the same 29W.
11.6" - Core i5-2537M (option for Core i7-2657M)
13.3" - Core i7-2629M (option for Core i7-2649M)
You should submit this. As the current article had me confused as to the potential configurations, and I am sure I am not alone there as your reply represents.
ULV CPUs (17W) will go to 11.6". The TDP of 320M is not known but 9400M has TDP of 12W so it is quite safe to assume that the TDP is similar to that. That means current 11.6" MBA has TDP of 22W (includes CPU, GPU, chipset) while SB 11.6" MBA would have a TDP of 21W (17W for the CPU and ~4W for the PCH).
13" will go with LV CPUs (25W). Again, currently it has 17W for the CPU and 12W for 320M. That's 29W. 25W CPU and ~4W for PCH gives you the same 29W.
11.6" - Core i5-2537M (option for Core i7-2657M)
13.3" - Core i7-2629M (option for Core i7-2649M)
You should submit this. As the current article had me confused as to the potential configurations, and I am sure I am not alone there as your reply represents.
macaddiict
Apr 25, 01:38 PM
money grubbers
I agree, Apple is pretty ridiculous at times.
That must be who you meant, since you clearly haven't had time to read the lawsuit yet.
Or do you think all lawsuits are 'money grubbers'?
I agree, Apple is pretty ridiculous at times.
That must be who you meant, since you clearly haven't had time to read the lawsuit yet.
Or do you think all lawsuits are 'money grubbers'?
ferguldy
Jul 27, 09:49 AM
So are we really going to get ALL of these new toys come WWDC? Leopard preview, Merom laptops, Core2/Woodcrest Mac Pros, Core2 Imacs (oh, and maybe a movie download add to iTunes) That sounds like an awful lot of stuff to cover in such a short period of time. What do people think about timelines for introduction here?
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