AppliedVisual
Oct 15, 12:59 PM
Why would Apple show their Clovertown workstations after HP and not simultaneusly with HP?
Because that's usually how it works. :confused:
HP is Intel's main launch partner for the quad-core Xeon and I think they have secured the first of the major shipments.
Because that's usually how it works. :confused:
HP is Intel's main launch partner for the quad-core Xeon and I think they have secured the first of the major shipments.
hcuar
Sep 19, 12:27 PM
I'm finding it hilarious that you can put yourself into Stevie's reality distortion field even after the Intel switch. Maybe while Apple had PPC, you could have said that. But now that direct hardware comparisons can be made, don't you think it's stupid that sub-$1000 PC notebooks have better processors than the best Apple has to offer?
And yes, the MBP is a top-of-the-line laptop. Apart from 2'' thick behemoths, it was one of the fastest portables around, and it was priced accordingly. Now it's still priced as such, but times are moving, technology is advancing, and if you compare pound for pound, the MBP is behind.
No way are you looking at a sub $1000 PC notebook with a Core 2 Duo. (edit: haha the Core 2 Duo you linked is a POS... it might be a C2D, but it operates at 1/2 the core frequency... GG).
It's not a matter of comparing Dell/Alienware to Apple for myself. There's only one type of machine I would purchase. I wouldn't purchase the current Macbook/pro right now realizing that a refresh is coming. However, some people really wouldn't care. If I "had" to purchase one... I'd get the Apple hands down. I'd gimp a bit and get OS X.
No... I don't have a MBP... no... I don't have an Intel based Mac. I'm sitting on the two Macs in my sig. I won't upgrade them until they die.
I'm not in any sort of reality distortion field. I just understand paying a bit more and accepting the products offered is a better option that getting "leet" hardware. Best example for me is AMD versus Intel. AMD has offered a faster processor for years, which was actually cheaper (until recently)... However Intel has provided the quality/stability. Therefore I wouldn't touch AMD. (I did with the XP line... big mistake). I consider Apple to be in the same realm. Did you ever consider that Apple actually cares about the engineering, and might be working a few bugs out?
I believe the age of good enough and cheap is over for the PC world. The market is making a shift to better reliability/stability.
And yes, the MBP is a top-of-the-line laptop. Apart from 2'' thick behemoths, it was one of the fastest portables around, and it was priced accordingly. Now it's still priced as such, but times are moving, technology is advancing, and if you compare pound for pound, the MBP is behind.
No way are you looking at a sub $1000 PC notebook with a Core 2 Duo. (edit: haha the Core 2 Duo you linked is a POS... it might be a C2D, but it operates at 1/2 the core frequency... GG).
It's not a matter of comparing Dell/Alienware to Apple for myself. There's only one type of machine I would purchase. I wouldn't purchase the current Macbook/pro right now realizing that a refresh is coming. However, some people really wouldn't care. If I "had" to purchase one... I'd get the Apple hands down. I'd gimp a bit and get OS X.
No... I don't have a MBP... no... I don't have an Intel based Mac. I'm sitting on the two Macs in my sig. I won't upgrade them until they die.
I'm not in any sort of reality distortion field. I just understand paying a bit more and accepting the products offered is a better option that getting "leet" hardware. Best example for me is AMD versus Intel. AMD has offered a faster processor for years, which was actually cheaper (until recently)... However Intel has provided the quality/stability. Therefore I wouldn't touch AMD. (I did with the XP line... big mistake). I consider Apple to be in the same realm. Did you ever consider that Apple actually cares about the engineering, and might be working a few bugs out?
I believe the age of good enough and cheap is over for the PC world. The market is making a shift to better reliability/stability.
~Shard~
Aug 25, 03:00 PM
Apple needs to address this situation appropriately. As their products gain higher profile, as their customer base increases and they gain market share, it's only logical to think that there will be a greater need for support. If nothing else, it's simple math - more Macs out there = more problems! Esepcially with how well the Intel Macs have been selling, I think Apple would be foolish to think that what was good enough a few years ago is still good enough today in terms of support.
Apple must also realize the importance of first impressions. Now more than ever new switchers are coming on board to the Intel platform, and if they have problems right off the bat and poor customer service and support, that's going to leave a sour taste in their mouth, and perhaps they may just get fed up and switch back.
Apple is so good at so many things - let's hope they ensure this is the case for their Support services as well.
Apple must also realize the importance of first impressions. Now more than ever new switchers are coming on board to the Intel platform, and if they have problems right off the bat and poor customer service and support, that's going to leave a sour taste in their mouth, and perhaps they may just get fed up and switch back.
Apple is so good at so many things - let's hope they ensure this is the case for their Support services as well.
TangoCharlie
Jul 20, 11:25 AM
You realize there are probably only four people on this board who are old enough to get that joke, right? [snip]
I'm one of them! :eek: What I woudn't have given for a Quadra 650 when they came out. I was stuck with an LC (original pizza box Mac). In fact, I'd have been happy with the LC475 (which was basically a cut-down Quadra 605)!! :)
Eventually did get an LC475... minus the case. Oh, those were the days!
I'm one of them! :eek: What I woudn't have given for a Quadra 650 when they came out. I was stuck with an LC (original pizza box Mac). In fact, I'd have been happy with the LC475 (which was basically a cut-down Quadra 605)!! :)
Eventually did get an LC475... minus the case. Oh, those were the days!
TangoCharlie
Jul 20, 12:44 PM
I disagree. I think Apple will use Core 2 Duo (Conroe) in the iMac, and Merom in the MBP. The iMac could hold a G5, why not Conroe?
On top of that, you'll notice that a 2.16 GHz Conroe costs $70 less than the 1.83 GHz Yonah that's in the iMac now, $70 less than a 2 GHz Merom, and $200 less than a 2.16 GHz Merom, increasing Apple's profit margins on the iMac considerably or allowing a price drop- plus they can advertise it as a desktop processor.
In fact, even if Conroe was too hot (which I highly doubt, since the iMac had a G5), a 2.16 GHz Conroe underclocked to 2 GHz still saves $70 over a 2 GHz Merom.
I don't disagree with your logic.... and in time I think the iMac will move to Conroe; However, the Merom is a drop-in replacement for the Yonah, and that fact alone suggests to me that Apple will upgrade the iMac to Merom first (WWDC). The very fact that Merom and Conroe will both be "Core 2 Duo" will let Apple pop in a Merom initially and then "upgrade" to Conroe with a mainboard upgrade at a later date. As you say, I don't think heat is an issue here.
Only time will tell. :)
On top of that, you'll notice that a 2.16 GHz Conroe costs $70 less than the 1.83 GHz Yonah that's in the iMac now, $70 less than a 2 GHz Merom, and $200 less than a 2.16 GHz Merom, increasing Apple's profit margins on the iMac considerably or allowing a price drop- plus they can advertise it as a desktop processor.
In fact, even if Conroe was too hot (which I highly doubt, since the iMac had a G5), a 2.16 GHz Conroe underclocked to 2 GHz still saves $70 over a 2 GHz Merom.
I don't disagree with your logic.... and in time I think the iMac will move to Conroe; However, the Merom is a drop-in replacement for the Yonah, and that fact alone suggests to me that Apple will upgrade the iMac to Merom first (WWDC). The very fact that Merom and Conroe will both be "Core 2 Duo" will let Apple pop in a Merom initially and then "upgrade" to Conroe with a mainboard upgrade at a later date. As you say, I don't think heat is an issue here.
Only time will tell. :)
Shadow
Jul 14, 07:02 PM
Why be limited to 2? Why not 3, 4, 5 or 6? I also want quad-10GHz Woodcrests with 20GB of DDR6-8000 RAM, with 2exobytes of HDD space. AND room to upgrade. Oh, and quad 7900GTXs. For �1000.
Ok, that never gonna happen, but it illustrates the point that people want more and more for less and less.
Ok, that never gonna happen, but it illustrates the point that people want more and more for less and less.
phairphan
Aug 26, 04:19 PM
Only problem with that is that a 2.33 GHz Merom chip will be fifty percent more expensive than a 2.16 GHz Yonah is today. So do you think Apple will increase prices of the MacBook Pro by $150 to $200 or reduce their profit?
I believe the 2.33 GHz Merom chip debuted at the same price as the 2.16 GHz Yonah when it was released. The prices of MBPs certainly haven't fallen. Apple has just been enjoying the extra profits from Intel's price drops of the past few months.
I believe the 2.33 GHz Merom chip debuted at the same price as the 2.16 GHz Yonah when it was released. The prices of MBPs certainly haven't fallen. Apple has just been enjoying the extra profits from Intel's price drops of the past few months.
MacRumorUser
Nov 27, 04:13 PM
Gran Turismo: The REAL driving simulator ....as long as you've grinded long enough. :rolleyes:
Exactly. It's always been a contradictory game for me. The claim of real against the synthetic just has never jelled for me.
I'd rather a game like burnout, heck even Mario Kart not because it's easier or arcade, but because it doesn't have any pretentious about being what it is.
I'd love to love GT series, just find it impossible to do and I've given ALL of them a try including the even more pretentious PROLOGUE versions.
Exactly. It's always been a contradictory game for me. The claim of real against the synthetic just has never jelled for me.
I'd rather a game like burnout, heck even Mario Kart not because it's easier or arcade, but because it doesn't have any pretentious about being what it is.
I'd love to love GT series, just find it impossible to do and I've given ALL of them a try including the even more pretentious PROLOGUE versions.
boncellis
Jul 14, 11:32 PM
School House Rock - "Oh, I'm just a bill, a lonely old bill, sitting here on Capitol Hill" (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1569494088/002-8458341-9463244?redirect=true)
I prefer the Simpsons' parody of that cartoon:
"...and I'll make Ted Kennedy pay, if he fights back I'll say that he's gay."
But seriously, the $1799 price point is a step in the right direction. If we could get it down to $1599 or <gasp> $1499, then that would be the de facto mini tower so many have clamored for. I would like a redesigned case, but that'll come eventually.
Sometimes the right price can make a person forget about what might have been.
I prefer the Simpsons' parody of that cartoon:
"...and I'll make Ted Kennedy pay, if he fights back I'll say that he's gay."
But seriously, the $1799 price point is a step in the right direction. If we could get it down to $1599 or <gasp> $1499, then that would be the de facto mini tower so many have clamored for. I would like a redesigned case, but that'll come eventually.
Sometimes the right price can make a person forget about what might have been.
kdarling
Apr 19, 02:43 PM
That sort of misstates the test for likelihood of confusion. A consumer might, for example, believe that Apple licenses or otherwise blesses the Samsung products. That's probably good enough.
Thank you for the correction!
Please stop spreading FUD. If you knew anything about the history of the iPhone, you would know that it was announced and previewed at MacWorld 2007.
"FUD" is a big strong, don't you think? But you are correct; the F700 was shown off a couple of weeks later.
As I've said many times, 2006 was the time that everyone of us in the business (not casual consumers) knew that touchscreen phones were coming. Many companies were working on them; some quicker than others. They had no need to copy from each other; there's only a few major ways to do an all-touch phone without getting weird.
That's why Jobs felt he had to show off the iPhone before the other trade shows came along, long before it was ready for sale. He did not want to be seen as second in line. (It had nothing to do with the FCC... that's a story for the naive.)
Thank you for the correction!
Please stop spreading FUD. If you knew anything about the history of the iPhone, you would know that it was announced and previewed at MacWorld 2007.
"FUD" is a big strong, don't you think? But you are correct; the F700 was shown off a couple of weeks later.
As I've said many times, 2006 was the time that everyone of us in the business (not casual consumers) knew that touchscreen phones were coming. Many companies were working on them; some quicker than others. They had no need to copy from each other; there's only a few major ways to do an all-touch phone without getting weird.
That's why Jobs felt he had to show off the iPhone before the other trade shows came along, long before it was ready for sale. He did not want to be seen as second in line. (It had nothing to do with the FCC... that's a story for the naive.)
Macnoviz
Jul 20, 10:02 AM
Notice time. I bags it, I said it first, it's MINE!!!
My only...
My Mactopus...
Mactopus on Google gives you 18 hits
My only...
My Mactopus...
Mactopus on Google gives you 18 hits
laidbackliam
Aug 7, 10:39 AM
I'd like to see your "Mac" model bumped up past the iMac. I think a lot of people, myself included, would pay a premium for the ability to upgrade. In fact, I wouldn't care if they didn't offer a completely new model as long as they offer some "affordable" manifestations of the Mac Pro. So how's this (and go easy on me here because I rarely delve into the technical aspect of things):
-Squire
yes, but i see the price point being under the iMac still. but again, this is just something i'd LIKE to see, and don't expect. and i know some people would pay a premium. but i'm not some people.
-Squire
yes, but i see the price point being under the iMac still. but again, this is just something i'd LIKE to see, and don't expect. and i know some people would pay a premium. but i'm not some people.
mdntcallr
Sep 13, 10:30 AM
this is pretty neat news.
means people like me can buy a mac pro tower with the 2.0 ghz core. good video card.
then upgrade later on when i have more money. that and it will be powerful as hell.
super nice!
means people like me can buy a mac pro tower with the 2.0 ghz core. good video card.
then upgrade later on when i have more money. that and it will be powerful as hell.
super nice!
Iconoclysm
Apr 19, 08:31 PM
honestly i don't understand Company Obsession.
Its fine to love gadgets, regardless of company, but to be blindly following a multinational corporation whose only motivation is $$$ for its shareholders, its kinda retarded.
EVERYONE. BE A GADGET FAN. DON'T OBSESS OVER A COMPANY.
Right, just love those gadgets and ignore that the manufacturer that's making your favorite ones...and changing the entire direciton of multiple industries...happens to be Apple. Honestly, you're doing the flipside of the coin here - you're purposefully fooling yourself into being a "fan" of everything. Which is actually, a lot worse.
Its fine to love gadgets, regardless of company, but to be blindly following a multinational corporation whose only motivation is $$$ for its shareholders, its kinda retarded.
EVERYONE. BE A GADGET FAN. DON'T OBSESS OVER A COMPANY.
Right, just love those gadgets and ignore that the manufacturer that's making your favorite ones...and changing the entire direciton of multiple industries...happens to be Apple. Honestly, you're doing the flipside of the coin here - you're purposefully fooling yourself into being a "fan" of everything. Which is actually, a lot worse.
Multimedia
Aug 26, 08:28 PM
On the day that the MBP's with merom go on sale, I wonder WHAT TIME Apples website will change and display the new products? :confused:Updated Wesbite Is Usually by 9 Eastern. Occasionally later. But usually then. :)Probebly 10:00AM - 11:00AM Pacific time.No.Eastern? That's 6:00AM Pacific? You think? 9:00AM Pacific sounds good.No. its usually by 6AM Pacific 9AM Eastern. I KNOW - not guessing.
Bleubird2
Apr 27, 08:50 AM
Its not about being a criminal or paranoid. This data is for the sole purpose of marketers to sell us crap.
Well, I'm tired of seeing ads everywhere I turn. You can't go to the bathroom now without seeing a ad shoved in your face and its becoming tiresome.
It reminds me of a line from Futurama:
Leela: Didn't you have ads in the 21st century?"
Fry: Well sure, but not in our dreams. Only on TV and radio, and in magazines, and movies, and at ball games... and on buses and milk cartons and t-shirts, and bananas and written on the sky. But not in dreams, no siree.
Well, Fry could have added our iPads and our phones too. Its disgusting already how much advertising has infiltrated our lives. You can't even read a news story on the internet without an ad being being intrusively shoved in your face.
I'm old-fashined I guess because I have no interest in having a smartphone in the first place. I just have a standard flip-phone. By owning a smartphone, you are always going to be faced with privacy issues because if you are using facebook/twitter and whatever else you are using to broadcasting your information. If you don't want advertisers to use your information, stop using social networking sites and search engines and stop being connected.
Well, I'm tired of seeing ads everywhere I turn. You can't go to the bathroom now without seeing a ad shoved in your face and its becoming tiresome.
It reminds me of a line from Futurama:
Leela: Didn't you have ads in the 21st century?"
Fry: Well sure, but not in our dreams. Only on TV and radio, and in magazines, and movies, and at ball games... and on buses and milk cartons and t-shirts, and bananas and written on the sky. But not in dreams, no siree.
Well, Fry could have added our iPads and our phones too. Its disgusting already how much advertising has infiltrated our lives. You can't even read a news story on the internet without an ad being being intrusively shoved in your face.
I'm old-fashined I guess because I have no interest in having a smartphone in the first place. I just have a standard flip-phone. By owning a smartphone, you are always going to be faced with privacy issues because if you are using facebook/twitter and whatever else you are using to broadcasting your information. If you don't want advertisers to use your information, stop using social networking sites and search engines and stop being connected.
Kelmon
Aug 27, 05:11 AM
Arrgh! The anticipation! While I'd like to be able to hold off on a new laptop until Santa Rosa and a supporting MacBook Pro hits the market I can't. My old Ti PowerBook is way too slow these days and it will be replaced by the first 17" Merom-based MacBook Pro that Apple releases. While there's a few things that I'd like to see updated in the new models beyond the processor, I think my #1 will be 4GB RAM limit (2GB is fine for one OS but I want to be running OS X and Windows side-by-side at work) and #2 will be an updated GPU.
It will certainly be interesting to see what happens next week (personally, I'm not expecting an announcement, but hey, I'm happy to be wrong) and it will nicely coincide with the finances becoming available for the muther of all portable Macs. As long as the new one doesn't have any QA or design issues, I'll be as happy as a pig in ****...
It will certainly be interesting to see what happens next week (personally, I'm not expecting an announcement, but hey, I'm happy to be wrong) and it will nicely coincide with the finances becoming available for the muther of all portable Macs. As long as the new one doesn't have any QA or design issues, I'll be as happy as a pig in ****...
~Shard~
Jul 15, 10:49 AM
I disagree. Using ATX power supplies is a stupid idea. I am sure Apple uses higher quality power supplies than you would pick up at your local CompUSA.
If they allow this there will be a lot of dead Macs, from power supplies whose rails aren't strong enough.
Not to mention those who buy the 400W model because it is only 20 bucks and drastically underpower there Mac.
This would cause to many problems. Keep it proprietary IMO.
Actually that is a good point. Another good example is how some people install incorrect RAM into their Mac - they just pick up generic cheapo RAM, not Mac-certified, and wonder why they have all sorts of issues.
If they allow this there will be a lot of dead Macs, from power supplies whose rails aren't strong enough.
Not to mention those who buy the 400W model because it is only 20 bucks and drastically underpower there Mac.
This would cause to many problems. Keep it proprietary IMO.
Actually that is a good point. Another good example is how some people install incorrect RAM into their Mac - they just pick up generic cheapo RAM, not Mac-certified, and wonder why they have all sorts of issues.
-755307.jpg "megan fox haircut how to.")
relimw
Sep 13, 01:00 PM
A bit pointless given that no software utilises the extra cores yet. But nice to know, I guess.
Hehe, everybody else cited you, I suppose I will as well.
It's not that those cores won't be used. The average Joe user won't need them, it won't help you type letters any faster, and it'll do very little to help you websurf any faster (unless people keep putting bloat-ware browsers out there).
What it will help with, is people using HPC apps (BLAST comes to mind), or multi-threaded apps.
Hehe, everybody else cited you, I suppose I will as well.
It's not that those cores won't be used. The average Joe user won't need them, it won't help you type letters any faster, and it'll do very little to help you websurf any faster (unless people keep putting bloat-ware browsers out there).
What it will help with, is people using HPC apps (BLAST comes to mind), or multi-threaded apps.
swingerofbirch
Aug 25, 05:00 PM
It seems like a preponderance of the issues people have are with the notebooks.
Do you think it could be because Apple has the thinnest laptops on the market which means they sacrifice build quality and heat management?
When I looked at the innards of an iBook G3 it was basically "a mess" in there...nothing looked modular like you would see inside the new Mac pro.
Do you think it could be because Apple has the thinnest laptops on the market which means they sacrifice build quality and heat management?
When I looked at the innards of an iBook G3 it was basically "a mess" in there...nothing looked modular like you would see inside the new Mac pro.
Squire
Jul 15, 06:10 AM
For what it's worth, Alienware's top-of-the-line ALX series desktops (actually, all of their desktops, I believe) have the power supply at the top, too. I know some will scoff but they are lauded for their gaming performance and they brag about their cooling technology.
-Squire
-Squire
Porco
Aug 6, 06:25 PM
Why sell a new keyboard for front row, if you can sell a new Mac to the same person? Including the sensor in the Cinema Displays would enable Apple to sell more of their display, on which they probably have a very good profit margin (when you compare to other manufacturers).
Because people would buy a new keyboard for some extra functionality; they wouldn't dump their entire system for one feature. And besides, my idea was a solution to the Mac Pro specific issue - therefore it would have to be available as a replacement part for the Mac Pro, making it sensible as an optional purchase for every mac owner. But regardless of that, it would be included with the new computer! If all the other macs have an integrated IR sensor, are you suggesting Apple will want people to buy an iMac rather than a Mac Pro? Really? Also, everyone needs a keyboard, it's on the low-end of the price scale as an upgradable item and it would be easy to add IR.
They could also just put it into the tower. Even if that is under the desk, it might not be that much of a problem. In my experience the sensor responds very nicely to the remote even if the line of sight between them is somewhat obstructed.
They could, but the keyboard is, I would have thought, much much more likely to be in a predictably close position to the screen in the vast majority of cases.
However the best solution I think, was suggested by someone on these forums. I don't know, whether it has been quoted here already, because I did not go through all the messages. This poster suggested to combine the sensor with an external iSight. That could be connected to any monitor and would probably have a good IR reception because of beeing on top of the monitor and thus very exposed.
Not everyone needs or wants an external iSight. Everyone uses a keyboard. I think my solution works not only because of the exposure/position, but also in the ubiquity of the item. The IR sensors in the other machines are on the machines themselves because that's where it makes sense - but they are there, accessible, whatever your set-up is, wherever you put it (with the possible exception of the mini I guess if you really wanted that hidden away). The keyboard solution would just take the most predictably accessible (and standard) element of the system for a Mac Pro and puts the IR there - a display is optional, an external iSight is optional, the keyboard that comes with every machine - well that's standard.
Because people would buy a new keyboard for some extra functionality; they wouldn't dump their entire system for one feature. And besides, my idea was a solution to the Mac Pro specific issue - therefore it would have to be available as a replacement part for the Mac Pro, making it sensible as an optional purchase for every mac owner. But regardless of that, it would be included with the new computer! If all the other macs have an integrated IR sensor, are you suggesting Apple will want people to buy an iMac rather than a Mac Pro? Really? Also, everyone needs a keyboard, it's on the low-end of the price scale as an upgradable item and it would be easy to add IR.
They could also just put it into the tower. Even if that is under the desk, it might not be that much of a problem. In my experience the sensor responds very nicely to the remote even if the line of sight between them is somewhat obstructed.
They could, but the keyboard is, I would have thought, much much more likely to be in a predictably close position to the screen in the vast majority of cases.
However the best solution I think, was suggested by someone on these forums. I don't know, whether it has been quoted here already, because I did not go through all the messages. This poster suggested to combine the sensor with an external iSight. That could be connected to any monitor and would probably have a good IR reception because of beeing on top of the monitor and thus very exposed.
Not everyone needs or wants an external iSight. Everyone uses a keyboard. I think my solution works not only because of the exposure/position, but also in the ubiquity of the item. The IR sensors in the other machines are on the machines themselves because that's where it makes sense - but they are there, accessible, whatever your set-up is, wherever you put it (with the possible exception of the mini I guess if you really wanted that hidden away). The keyboard solution would just take the most predictably accessible (and standard) element of the system for a Mac Pro and puts the IR there - a display is optional, an external iSight is optional, the keyboard that comes with every machine - well that's standard.
Eidorian
Jul 14, 05:21 PM
Given that this is easily available for the PC world, there's no reason why it can't also be made available for the Mac (aside from someone deciding to write the device driver, of course.)Ok, here's ANOTHER can of worms. Since we're on EFI now and can boot in Windows. It means our video cards, etc. don't have Open Firmware BIOS. Does that mean ANY "Windows" video card will work as long as OS X has drivers for it? Does OS X even have generic VGA drivers?
mashinhead
Aug 18, 09:34 AM
if clovertown is pin compatable it will work.
I know if it is it will work, what i'm asking is, is it? Or is that not known at this time?
I know if it is it will work, what i'm asking is, is it? Or is that not known at this time?
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