epitaphic
Aug 18, 11:46 PM
So you think they put an extra processor in across the line just to be able to say they had a quad? Even the AnandTech article you used as a source showed here (http://www.anandtech.com/mac/showdoc.aspx?i=2816&p=18) that PS took advantage of quad cores in Rosetta
Yes under some specific results the quad was a bit faster than the dual. Though with the combo of Rosetta+Photoshop its unclear what is causing the difference. However, if you compare the vast majority of the benchmarks, there's negligible difference.
Concerning Photoshop specifically, as can be experienced on a quad G5, the performance increase is 15-20%. A future jump to 8-core would theoretically be in the 8% increase mark. Photoshop (CS2) simply cannot scale adequately beyond 2 cores, maybe that'll change in Spring 2007. Fingers crossed it does.
Your points about latency and FSB are not separate negatives as you have made them. They are redundant theoretical concerns with implications of unclear practical significance.
I beg to differ. If an app or game is memory intensive, faster memory access does matter. Barefeats (http://barefeats.com/quad09.html) has some benchmarks on dual channel vs quad channel on the Mac Pro. I'd personally like to see that benchmark with an added Conroe system. If dual to quad channel gave 16-25% improvement, imagine what 75% increase in actual bandwidth will do. Besides, I was merely addressing your statements that Woodcrest is faster because of its higher speed FSB and higher memory bus bandwidth.
I am not worried. Everything anyone has come up with on this issue are taken from that same AnandTech article. Until I see more real-world testing, I will not be convinced. Also, I expect that more pro apps such as PS will be able to utilize quad cores in the near future, if they aren't already doing so. Finally, even if Conroe is faster, Woodcrest is fast enough for me ;).
Anandtech, at the moment, is the only place with a quad xeon vs dual xeon benchmark. And yes, dual Woodcrest is fast enough, but is it cost effective compared to a single Woodcrest/Conroe? It seems that for the most part, Mac Pro users are paying for an extra chip but only really utilizing it when running several CPU intensive apps at the same time.
I think you misread that. They were comparing Core 2 Extreme (not Woodcrest) and Conroe to see whether the increased FSB of the former would make much difference.
You're absolutely right about that, its only measuring the improvement over increased FSB. If you take into account FB-DIMM's appalling efficiency, there should be no increase at all (if not decrease) for memory intensive apps.
One question I'd like to put out there, if Apple has had a quad core mac shipping for the past 8 months, why would it wait til intel quads to optimize the code for FCP? Surely they must have known for some time before that that they would release a quad core G5 so either optimizing FCP for quads is a real bastard or they've been sitting on it for no reason.
Yes under some specific results the quad was a bit faster than the dual. Though with the combo of Rosetta+Photoshop its unclear what is causing the difference. However, if you compare the vast majority of the benchmarks, there's negligible difference.
Concerning Photoshop specifically, as can be experienced on a quad G5, the performance increase is 15-20%. A future jump to 8-core would theoretically be in the 8% increase mark. Photoshop (CS2) simply cannot scale adequately beyond 2 cores, maybe that'll change in Spring 2007. Fingers crossed it does.
Your points about latency and FSB are not separate negatives as you have made them. They are redundant theoretical concerns with implications of unclear practical significance.
I beg to differ. If an app or game is memory intensive, faster memory access does matter. Barefeats (http://barefeats.com/quad09.html) has some benchmarks on dual channel vs quad channel on the Mac Pro. I'd personally like to see that benchmark with an added Conroe system. If dual to quad channel gave 16-25% improvement, imagine what 75% increase in actual bandwidth will do. Besides, I was merely addressing your statements that Woodcrest is faster because of its higher speed FSB and higher memory bus bandwidth.
I am not worried. Everything anyone has come up with on this issue are taken from that same AnandTech article. Until I see more real-world testing, I will not be convinced. Also, I expect that more pro apps such as PS will be able to utilize quad cores in the near future, if they aren't already doing so. Finally, even if Conroe is faster, Woodcrest is fast enough for me ;).
Anandtech, at the moment, is the only place with a quad xeon vs dual xeon benchmark. And yes, dual Woodcrest is fast enough, but is it cost effective compared to a single Woodcrest/Conroe? It seems that for the most part, Mac Pro users are paying for an extra chip but only really utilizing it when running several CPU intensive apps at the same time.
I think you misread that. They were comparing Core 2 Extreme (not Woodcrest) and Conroe to see whether the increased FSB of the former would make much difference.
You're absolutely right about that, its only measuring the improvement over increased FSB. If you take into account FB-DIMM's appalling efficiency, there should be no increase at all (if not decrease) for memory intensive apps.
One question I'd like to put out there, if Apple has had a quad core mac shipping for the past 8 months, why would it wait til intel quads to optimize the code for FCP? Surely they must have known for some time before that that they would release a quad core G5 so either optimizing FCP for quads is a real bastard or they've been sitting on it for no reason.
flopticalcube
Apr 27, 10:37 AM
I believe the 'long form' is rearranging the deck chairs. :)
At least they made it up on deck.
At least they made it up on deck.
yg17
Apr 27, 11:45 AM
Just think of it like this, how hard would it be to fraud this? NObama's administration could whip one up in an hour the most.
While I personally don't doubt NObama is born in Hawaii, I doubt this will matter for one bit.
Who is NOBama? I looked up that name on Wikipedia but haven't found anything.
While I personally don't doubt NObama is born in Hawaii, I doubt this will matter for one bit.
Who is NOBama? I looked up that name on Wikipedia but haven't found anything.
xxBURT0Nxx
Apr 7, 11:11 AM
No indeed, it's not. Intel forced the whole OEM industry to use their IGP, not just Apple. ;)
No matter how you slice it, for some applications, IGPs make sense. Intel cut out the competence from that market with their shenanigans. And now the consumers pays for it with sub-par graphics processors.
haha clever, i'm not really arguing with you, i rather agree with what you are saying, i just don't put the blame on intel. Sure the whole debacle may have pursuaded apple to just use the IGP, but i think it's more of apples decision to make things as thin as possible that left out a dedicated gpu in favor of the IGP.
If apple really didn't want their customers to have to use intels graphics, they could have easily gotten around this, they just may have had to do some design changes they weren't willing to make. just my .02 but either way i wouldn't consider the 320m of old to be very high end either. If you are looking to game or need a high end graphics card you should stick to desktop, perhaps even PC over mac.
No matter how you slice it, for some applications, IGPs make sense. Intel cut out the competence from that market with their shenanigans. And now the consumers pays for it with sub-par graphics processors.
haha clever, i'm not really arguing with you, i rather agree with what you are saying, i just don't put the blame on intel. Sure the whole debacle may have pursuaded apple to just use the IGP, but i think it's more of apples decision to make things as thin as possible that left out a dedicated gpu in favor of the IGP.
If apple really didn't want their customers to have to use intels graphics, they could have easily gotten around this, they just may have had to do some design changes they weren't willing to make. just my .02 but either way i wouldn't consider the 320m of old to be very high end either. If you are looking to game or need a high end graphics card you should stick to desktop, perhaps even PC over mac.
jvmxtra
Apr 6, 01:13 PM
What is the obsession with back-lit keys?
Do you actually look at the keyboard when you're typing?
Once you have it, you don't want it without.
ps:I type fastttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttt
sent from swipe keyboard :D
Do you actually look at the keyboard when you're typing?
Once you have it, you don't want it without.
ps:I type fastttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttt
sent from swipe keyboard :D
azzurri000
Sep 18, 11:32 PM
All I have to say is:
"what the hell is taking them so frigging long?"
This update better be bitchin!
"what the hell is taking them so frigging long?"
This update better be bitchin!
mmmcheese
Nov 28, 11:41 PM
Universal has already stated that half of the money will be going to the artists.
Do you work for Universal, or the RIAA?
Do you work for Universal, or the RIAA?
evilgEEk
Aug 11, 03:58 PM
I'm eligible for a new phone in just five days. As of right now I'm going to get the Chocolate because I like the style. Couldn't really care less about listening to music on my phone, that's what my iPod's for. ;)
But...but...if Apple does release a phone and I've already bought the Chocolate then I'll be kicking myself to no end. But on the other hand, how likely is it that the iPhone will even work on Verizon?
Bah! I need a new phone! :(
But...but...if Apple does release a phone and I've already bought the Chocolate then I'll be kicking myself to no end. But on the other hand, how likely is it that the iPhone will even work on Verizon?
Bah! I need a new phone! :(
DesmoPilot
Aug 9, 09:00 PM
i have never heard of SimBin, but looking at the website, it doesn't look bad. do any of their games work in Mac OS X?
Nope, just Windows unfortunately.
Nope, just Windows unfortunately.
JoeG4
Mar 31, 02:56 PM
lol damn what a bunch of crap.
Google is saying that Honeycomb was designed for tablets, not for mobile phones - and if you've actually used a honeycomb tablet you'd see that yea.. it's more of a computer/tablet thing than a phone thing.
The phone OS isn't that much of an iOS ripoff. Samsung ripped Apple's "grid of rounded off square icons" off but if you look at vanilla Android it doesn't really have that look.
That and home screens with icons in a grid are nothing new.
Google is saying that Honeycomb was designed for tablets, not for mobile phones - and if you've actually used a honeycomb tablet you'd see that yea.. it's more of a computer/tablet thing than a phone thing.
The phone OS isn't that much of an iOS ripoff. Samsung ripped Apple's "grid of rounded off square icons" off but if you look at vanilla Android it doesn't really have that look.
That and home screens with icons in a grid are nothing new.
MacAddict1978
Mar 26, 01:47 AM
I tested Lion, and removed it after a month. Not buying it. I'll use Snow Leopard, it's the best OS so far. I'll see the one after Lion, maybe there will be something interesting.
Would you mind elaborating? Like, why you didn't like it? What about it made you compelled to remove and decide not to buy? And please don't say bugs. It was a beta.
Would you mind elaborating? Like, why you didn't like it? What about it made you compelled to remove and decide not to buy? And please don't say bugs. It was a beta.
silentnite
Apr 25, 01:54 PM
I'm sure apple is not the only one doing it besides (Android) once they dig a little deeper will see.
mikemac11
Mar 26, 01:29 AM
This post made me laugh. As a developer who is actively testing and reporting bugs I can tell you that without a doubt this is 100% false. My dozen of bug reports combined with a lot of different discussions happening in the developer forums is a pretty clear indicator they have a while to go.
Side note: Really? Techcrunch?
Side note: Really? Techcrunch?
mikeapple
Apr 6, 10:44 AM
Can we also expect, ?
-Backlit keys
-Brighter display, colors, and IPS
-HD Facetime
All would be greatly appreciated along with the Sandy Bridge
fingers crossed for no Over-heating issues, you know how those turbo speeds can get and how they've treated the 13'' Pros
-Backlit keys
-Brighter display, colors, and IPS
-HD Facetime
All would be greatly appreciated along with the Sandy Bridge
fingers crossed for no Over-heating issues, you know how those turbo speeds can get and how they've treated the 13'' Pros
iGary
Sep 12, 11:02 AM
The folks over at Anandtech have dropped engineering samples of the quad core cloverton into a Mac Pro - http://www.anandtech.com/mac/showdoc.aspx?i=2832&p=6
and it worked ... all eight cores were recognised.
The rest of the article was interesting too.
This willl probably be the update I purchase next year - if it makes it into the Mac Pro - thanks for the link.
and it worked ... all eight cores were recognised.
The rest of the article was interesting too.
This willl probably be the update I purchase next year - if it makes it into the Mac Pro - thanks for the link.
VanMac
Aug 11, 10:26 AM
I say it everytime they talk about this..... I'll buy one.....just go ahead and release it already
Aeolius
Aug 5, 04:10 PM
... The Mac Pro will have Front Row, and how will you control it by remote if you're meant to keep it under your desk?
Keep your Mac UNDER your desk?!?! Blasphemy!! :D
Keep your Mac UNDER your desk?!?! Blasphemy!! :D
Leoff
Sep 19, 07:30 AM
i agree, I need a computer to encode video in iDVD because it takes forever on my PPC. That little difference in power is a big difference.
If you're still using the PPC, then you won't notice the difference between 2.0 and 2.16 on Intel. It will simply be "faster." Go out, get yourself a nice new MacBook, and enjoy.
If you're still using the PPC, then you won't notice the difference between 2.0 and 2.16 on Intel. It will simply be "faster." Go out, get yourself a nice new MacBook, and enjoy.
teme
Sep 19, 03:45 AM
PowerBook G5 by the holidays.
I wish this board would block automatically "PowerBook G5" and replace it with "************" so this tired so-called-joke would end someday.
I wish this board would block automatically "PowerBook G5" and replace it with "************" so this tired so-called-joke would end someday.
AidenShaw
Mar 26, 11:41 PM
Not quite, W7 is still based on Win NT technology, dating back to 1993.
OS X is still based on UNIX, dating back to '69.
ZING!
Thank you....
The only time I would be excited, literally, about a MAJOR release is if they went to an OS which was slated to be described by Canines.
"Canine" would mean that it smells bad (especially when wet), and is without pride, and is basically dumb but can learn tricks for kibbles.
Yes, bring on OSX "Poodle".
OS X is still based on UNIX, dating back to '69.
ZING!
Thank you....
The only time I would be excited, literally, about a MAJOR release is if they went to an OS which was slated to be described by Canines.
"Canine" would mean that it smells bad (especially when wet), and is without pride, and is basically dumb but can learn tricks for kibbles.
Yes, bring on OSX "Poodle".
NickPill
Aug 7, 11:56 PM
It's not yet available to ADC Select/Premier members that didn't go to todays keynote.
I'd kinda like to know myself since I couldn't attend.
Thanks for the info. But I can�t believe Apple will not offer 10.5 for downloading. It sounded like that every ADC Select and Premier member would get a copy immediately... Too bad I couldn�t make it this year to the WWDC.
I'd kinda like to know myself since I couldn't attend.
Thanks for the info. But I can�t believe Apple will not offer 10.5 for downloading. It sounded like that every ADC Select and Premier member would get a copy immediately... Too bad I couldn�t make it this year to the WWDC.
GregAndonian
Apr 11, 04:22 AM
Mr Jobs had good sense of keeping his fingers out of Pixar
...which is why their movies look INCREDIBLE on Blu-ray. :p :D
...which is why their movies look INCREDIBLE on Blu-ray. :p :D
vincenz
Apr 6, 10:22 AM
If the new airs are going to be anywhere near as powerful as the current MacBook pros, they're going to sell for sure.
Bill Gates
Aug 6, 01:53 PM
Domain Name: MAC-PRO.COM
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